Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:49 am

Vervandi wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:13 am
Are the race/class/profession combinations like live was at shutdown or have they changed?
Those have not changed. They're 24.3.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:06 am

Can people still use buff bots by logging in the bot first and the character they intend to play second? Buff the second character, log them both out and then log in with the second character fully buffed?
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:07 am

You lose all buffs when you change over from 'inactive' character to 'active/primary' character. :)
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Maybe...
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:44 pm

Hail and we'll met, hardly have any game time these days, but will try and roll something up. Good luck.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:45 am

Reaper989 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:15 am
A lot of interesting changes... some good some just odd. Granted "reverted" cloak of thorns, don't see what what changed prior. Raptor cloak seems like an interesting change... even if it was a huge gimmick ability which simply lacked any application besides a long cooldown flight that broke on attack/cast.

Then you take my % heals? Quite a low blow when I am gonna still be rocking leather, never did understood the logic behind the only healer-only class being in leather. The group friendly AoEs are nice tho, I'll give it that.
To cover a bit more on this.... a few questions if anyone can clarify. And yes, i did search.
  • Do Regrowth, Braiallia's Kiss, and Breathe of Spring stack with all other HoT effects? And do all three of these stack? I assumed they would stack with one another at least
  • Does Braialla's Kiss start at 20 seconds for it's cooldown, or does it scale down from a higher number? I see no information stating it has scaling, just checking
  • Does Breath of Spring's Ward stack with other wards? And if not, can other wards overwrite it? And if another ward replaces it, will it effect the HoT effect?
  • Thorns and Blight, even tho I have seen no direct patch notes regarding this (yet) are they still .1 cast time? (Single Target) - If not... why?
  • Sanctifier does not show scaling on trains for Sacred Reinforcement, does this power still need to be trained 1-20?
  • Succor : Does it still dispel death shroud on a corpse that has not respawned? If so, do promotion class resurrections also provide this effect now? (As only succor did on live)
  • I did not see any changes to Rat Catcher or Darksworn, can I assume these have been untouched?
  • I also did not see any changes to wereform discipline lines, are these also untouched?
  • I see the AoE ruleset is back to 24.3 meaning 7 targets max? (Was kinda hoping to see less "everyone get on meat" crutch....)
Colest
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:43 pm

This is me answering from memory. Don't take this as gospel from a red-name.
Reaper989 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:45 am
Do Regrowth, Braiallia's Kiss, and Breathe of Spring stack with all other HoT effects? And do all three of these stack? I assumed they would stack with one another at least
Yes and yes.
Does Braialla's Kiss start at 20 seconds for it's cooldown, or does it scale down from a higher number? I see no information stating it has scaling, just checking
Same CD at all ranks. Effectiveness and mana cost are what change.
Does Breath of Spring's Ward stack with other wards? And if not, can other wards overwrite it? And if another ward replaces it, will it effect the HoT effect?
No. I have been informed that it does stack with other wards. The HoT is a separate effect so if the ward gets overwritten the HoT will stay.
Thorns and Blight, even tho I have seen no direct patch notes regarding this (yet) are they still .1 cast time? (Single Target) - If not... why?
They were not insta-cast on live. They are still same cast time to my knowledge. If anything changed they were shortened but I don't think that change ever happened.
Sanctifier does not show scaling on trains for Sacred Reinforcement, does this power still need to be trained 1-20?
1 train brings it to JM. Same with Demolishing Spell.
Succor : Does it still dispel death shroud on a corpse that has not respawned? If so, do promotion class resurrections also provide this effect now? (As only succor did on live)
Yes and yes.
I did not see any changes to Rat Catcher or Darksworn, can I assume these have been untouched?
They never made it to live so yes they are untouched to the best of my memory.
I also did not see any changes to wereform discipline lines, are these also untouched?
I don't think the powers for the were discs were changed. Some things got changed so they're usable in wereforms. Potions is one of them. I'm drawing a blank on what else was changed to work in wereform.
I see the AoE ruleset is back to 24.3 meaning 7 targets max? (Was kinda hoping to see less "everyone get on meat" crutch....)
Yep, same with group friendly and non-group friendly.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:05 pm

Couple Questions:

1 - What is the population estimate at Go Live based on registered/active members?
2 - What is the goal here? Compete with Magicbane? Establish another SB Emulator? Expand the Playerbase?

Thanks
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:00 am

Colest wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:43 pm
Thorns and Blight, even tho I have seen no direct patch notes regarding this (yet) are they still .1 cast time? (Single Target) - If not... why?
They were not insta-cast on live. They are still same cast time to my knowledge. If anything changed they were shortened but I don't think that change ever happened.
Sanctifier does not show scaling on trains for Sacred Reinforcement, does this power still need to be trained 1-20?
1 train brings it to JM. Same with Demolishing Spell.
Succor : Does it still dispel death shroud on a corpse that has not respawned? If so, do promotion class resurrections also provide this effect now? (As only succor did on live)
Yes and yes.
I did not see any changes to Rat Catcher or Darksworn, can I assume these have been untouched?
They never made it to live so yes they are untouched to the best of my memory.
I also did not see any changes to wereform discipline lines, are these also untouched?
I don't think the powers for the were discs were changed. Some things got changed so they're usable in wereforms. Potions is one of them. I'm drawing a blank on what else was changed to work in wereform.
Ya patch 13 changed Blight's to 3.6 from a 4-5 second cast, forgot which it was originally but fairly certain it was 4. Thorns definitely went from a 3.5 to a 2 second cast time.

Patch 21 is where both were changed to .1 cast time in 2007. They were most definitely "instant" cast on live before shutdown. Confessor, however, went to 1 second cast times on poison/fire while the drain DoT actually was about 2 seconds. I still have recordings from both.

Nice, since I'll have extra trains to play with and my druid will lack access to commander anyways... so why not? Only other disc I could take is runecaster or drop my rat catcher... but I've found more use for rat catcher than runecaster's resist buff. At the same time I'd probably drop sanctifier or traveler if running more solo.

Rewen said he was pretty sure Succor only dispeled DS, but if the stronger ones do as well.... +1 because it was quite odd that a base class ability was more useful than a promotion class.

Rat Catcher actually got a regen debuff increase at one point... surprised nobody copied it to the notes. But what's on the wiki is correct, it was part of their attempt to counter regen along with buffing Doomsayer's HP regen debuff (well that and somewhat helping with R8 killing if you lacked someone with a poison backstab).

I know that potions could work on live and mostly ranger/huntress buffs could... nothing else to my knowledge. I know there was a suggestion thread to allow casting, I just know I'd abuse the hell out of them on plenty of classes if casting was allowed.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:09 am

Skorpion wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:05 pm
Couple Questions:

1 - What is the population estimate at Go Live based on registered/active members?
2 - What is the goal here? Compete with Magicbane? Establish another SB Emulator? Expand the Playerbase?

Thanks
1 - That's difficult to say. Even using old launch numbers would be a wild guess because its been quite a while since our last launch like this. If you participated in the Magicbane wipe on June 30th, I would say at least that number. In addition to those who actively follow SB emulation, we have an email campaign (as you probably noticed), so we expect some inactive players to return as well.

2 - Our goal, as always, is to provide a fun and sustained SB experience. We think the best way to do that is to continue the traditions of WP and SBG before us by releasing regular content and bug fix patches.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:45 am

Sounds great. Ill be there.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:07 am

So... Why did the ranger version of thorns get changed to 50/50 bleed/Pierce and dispel from anything that can remove bleeds?....

It already requires them to have an atr roll on their focusline which will be lower than most casters, so it will have a decent chance to miss as is.

Assassins, bards, huntresses, nightstalkers, and anyone with black mask already have options for DoT's which cannot be removed from simply healing. Some of which don't even require an atr hit roll.

That's before even considering the cast time of thorns, why was this needed? (Even if it is only the bleed part of the DoT)
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:01 am

The purpose is for that the damage isn't completely nullified by spiked piercing (which is common) or DAs.

It also allowed us to create/make more viable a new element of ranger play through casterlike builds which can be added on to down the line - whether that's through fixing up useless discs or tweaking rangers if/ when necessary.

It has a faster cast time now, deals more damage than on live and eats through physical resistance. The downside is that half of it is dispellable by healing powers.

This patch nerfed the power fairly substantially. It was too powerful on our last launch.

Re: druid dots: They were re-nerfed after druid meta during live, by SBG. They had cast times at shutdown.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:16 am

Starfish wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:01 am
The purpose is for that the damage isn't completely nullified by spiked piercing (which is common) or DAs.

It also allowed us to create/make more viable a new element of ranger play through casterlike builds which can be added on to down the line - whether that's through fixing up useless discs or tweaking rangers if/ when necessary.

It has a faster cast time now, deals more damage than on live and eats through physical resistance. The downside is that half of it is dispellable by healing powers.

This patch merged he power fairly substantially. It was too powerful on our last launch.

Re: druid dots. They were re-nerfed after druid meta during live, by SBG. They had cast times at shutdown.
Blight maybe, as it definitely should have only been 1s not .1,, I will check recordings. Thorns, however, makes little sense to be beyond 1-2 seconds with other classes already in that time frame for the same effect.

Edit : well I can later since currently slacking at work :D
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:20 am

Please see patch 21 details on wiki.

Blight changed to 3.6. GoT changed to 2. :D
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:49 am

Starfish wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:20 am
Please see patch 21 details on wiki.

Blight changed to 3.6. GoT changed to 2. :D
Actually remotely connecting to desktop to check a recording from a minefight against hatrack :D

But ya 2s but the wiki clearly says longer :P which the recording is from 08 which definitely shows grasp of thorns with a 1s cast.

Edit : Hmm minefight was a month before the update. But ya definitely pulling points from blight at a 3.6 cast time.

Thorns I can live with, even if it is ugly casting for a piercing DoT. Blight definitely needed a nerf (but would've rather seen it lose it's nuke for lower cast time)
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:13 am

Looks like the cast time was reduced for those Druid powers in patch 13 (July, 2006). However,
patch 21 (October, 2007) changed the druid's grasp of thorns cast time to 2 seconds and blight to 3.6.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:25 am

Rewen wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:13 am
Looks like the cast time was reduced for those Druid powers in patch 13 (July, 2006). However,
patch 21 (October, 2007) changed the druid's grasp of thorns cast time to 2 seconds and blight to 3.6.

That's where it's odd..... Blight definitely has a longer cast time in my video even tho it's before that patch.

Are the dates PTS releases or official release dates?

Thorns has cast time but it's a second at most while blight is definitely longer.... I'll hook one of you up later with it.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am

Probably time better spent asking if the spell is balanced in the current meta. :P

Lets see how Druids perform in the upcoming preview!
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:36 am

Rewen wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 am
Probably time better spent asking if the spell is balanced in the current meta. :P

Lets see how Druids perform in the upcoming preview!
True, granted I am gonna miss my "oh Skah!" heal :(
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:52 am

Rewen wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:09 am
Skorpion wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:05 pm
Couple Questions:

1 - What is the population estimate at Go Live based on registered/active members?
2 - What is the goal here? Compete with Magicbane? Establish another SB Emulator? Expand the Playerbase?

Thanks
1 - That's difficult to say. Even using old launch numbers would be a wild guess because its been quite a while since our last launch like this. If you participated in the Magicbane wipe on June 30th, I would say at least that number. In addition to those who actively follow SB emulation, we have an email campaign (as you probably noticed), so we expect some inactive players to return as well.

2 - Our goal, as always, is to provide a fun and sustained SB experience. We think the best way to do that is to continue the traditions of WP and SBG before us by releasing regular content and bug fix patches.

so its not a competition with MB? would have made more sense to collaborate as a single unit but it does look like a competitive project. Regardless of which project started first it has been MB that has sustained itself as a constant working server. lets see if this time SBEmu can last a little longer.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:42 pm

Tgillett1987 wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:52 am
so its not a competition with MB? would have made more sense to collaborate as a single unit but it does look like a competitive project. Regardless of which project started first it has been MB that has sustained itself as a constant working server. lets see if this time SBEmu can last a little longer.
Magicbane and Shadowbane Emulator have different goals, which is why Papah and Quietus decided to break away and make Magicbane in the first place.

SBE = regular patches and balance tweaks
MB = Patch 24.3 ad infinitum
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:07 am

I have a few questions:

1. Restoration focus line being 100% spirit - is this just for the focus line or is the formula to compute min & max DMG/healing for restoration spells also? IE replacing int with spirit in the formula to compute the min and Max healing of blessed mending.

2. Wiki - There have been a lot of updates, but several sections do not match with the patch notes. When can we expect all will entries to be complete and accurate?

3. Aoe caps and box limit - Is there anything stopping boxing lots of con minos for stack fights to take aoes with an active healer in the group to keep them up?

4. Throwing - is this 24.3 or un-nerfed? Which vendors roll throwing items?

5. Since human/elf runes can be obtained in game after creation, will Irekei (desert blood) and Nephilim runes (taint of chaos) also be available in game? And any other racial runes I am forgetting.

6. As buffbots are not going to work, any chance we can get some buffs to GM at 20 and 1 group so that an active character can not have to use all trains on buffs? Having to sink 219 points into a priest for just single target buffs just to compete with a conc point doesn't leave room for much else. Having the two defense buffs, alacrity, and Mana recovery cap at 20 trains or get 20 free trains would spare 79 points on a priest, and MR/Alacrity at 20 would save a wizard 40 trains while letting them be a useable toon.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:52 pm

phoenixblk wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:07 am
I have a few questions:

1. Restoration focus line being 100% spirit - is this just for the focus line or is the formula to compute min & max DMG/healing for restoration spells also? IE replacing int with spirit in the formula to compute the min and Max healing of blessed mending.

2. Wiki - There have been a lot of updates, but several sections do not match with the patch notes. When can we expect all will entries to be complete and accurate?

3. Aoe caps and box limit - Is there anything stopping boxing lots of con minos for stack fights to take aoes with an active healer in the group to keep them up?

4. Throwing - is this 24.3 or un-nerfed? Which vendors roll throwing items?

5. Since human/elf runes can be obtained in game after creation, will Irekei (desert blood) and Nephilim runes (taint of chaos) also be available in game? And any other racial runes I am forgetting.

6. As buffbots are not going to work, any chance we can get some buffs to GM at 20 and 1 group so that an active character can not have to use all trains on buffs? Having to sink 219 points into a priest for just single target buffs just to compete with a conc point doesn't leave room for much else. Having the two defense buffs, alacrity, and Mana recovery cap at 20 trains or get 20 free trains would spare 79 points on a priest, and MR/Alacrity at 20 would save a wizard 40 trains while letting them be a useable toon.
1. Its just for the focus line, but focus lines themselves do have an effect on "damage" (heals in this case)
2. We are in the process of updating the wiki as we speak.
3. The new multi-boxing restrictions make all characters that log in after the first one easy to kill. It would not be a viable tactic to stack them up to avoid AoE damage.
4. Throwing is 24.3
5. For now, only the human and elf racial runes are available in the world. We currently have no plans to add others.
6. This may be what ends up happening, but its still in discussion. We don't want to make GM buffs too easy to get, because then the question starts to become "well, why didn't you get GM buffs before going to that mine?"
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:00 pm

I might have missed the mention in the posts above but will this server be ARAC or Lore?
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:43 pm

Rewen wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:52 pm
1. Its just for the focus line, but focus lines themselves do have an effect on "damage" (heals in this case)
2. We are in the process of updating the wiki as we speak.
3. The new multi-boxing restrictions make all characters that log in after the first one easy to kill. It would not be a viable tactic to stack them up to avoid AoE damage.
4. Throwing weapons are on melee vendors now and can thus roll the old enchants (Morlochs of Ruin, etc)
5. For now, only the human and elf racial runes are available in the world. We currently have no plans to add others.
6. This may be what ends up happening, but its still in discussion. We don't want to make GM buffs too easy to get, because then the question starts to become "well, why didn't you get GM buffs before going to that mine?"
I spoke to the others and learned I was off about throwing. See correction in red. Updating master patch notes.
xxxpaintball wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:00 pm
I might have missed the mention in the posts above but will this server be ARAC or Lore?
It is going to be ARAC
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:50 pm

Rewen wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:52 pm
6. This may be what ends up happening, but its still in discussion. We don't want to make GM buffs too easy to get, because then the question starts to become "well, why didn't you get GM buffs before going to that mine?"
Won't be an issue if GM buffs don't take a ton of points or are just granted, the only harder ones will be bard/wizard while healers can all get GM single target buffs.

Sadly, on most of my healers... even if you made it "easier" to get GM buffs I wouldn't waste my points on anything but a buffer that sits in town or a safezone.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:32 pm

Buff bots won't be a thing in Shroud of Ardan unless you are playing them actively. If the caster of the buff logs out, the buffs it cast will be removed.
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:26 am

Rewen wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:32 pm
Buff bots won't be a thing in Shroud of Ardan unless you are playing them actively. If the caster of the buff logs out, the buffs it cast will be removed.
That is why I am asking if the points can be lowered so buffs can be trained on an active toon. You lowered all the resist group buffs and lowered trains on the bard to 20 to make them actively use chants instead of a buff bot - is there a plan to do a similar thing to healers? Maybe Alacrity or Mana Recovery on a priest/wizard could be lowered and be a short duration boost that stacks with a conc potion similar to the new bard chants (IE 20 trains Alacrity +10% attack speed 60 second duration, 30 second recast or something). Looking for incentives for active priests to train some buffs but still be viable, either by less train investment or their buffs doing something to impact combat.

So throwing is back on the old vendor, but the range is still 24.3?
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Re: Patch 2.0 Shroud of Ardan - Discussion

Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:54 am

phoenixblk wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:26 am
Rewen wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:32 pm
Buff bots won't be a thing in Shroud of Ardan unless you are playing them actively. If the caster of the buff logs out, the buffs it cast will be removed.
That is why I am asking if the points can be lowered so buffs can be trained on an active toon. You lowered all the resist group buffs and lowered trains on the bard to 20 to make them actively use chants instead of a buff bot - is there a plan to do a similar thing to healers? Maybe Alacrity or Mana Recovery on a priest/wizard could be lowered and be a short duration boost that stacks with a conc potion similar to the new bard chants (IE 20 trains Alacrity +10% attack speed 60 second duration, 30 second recast or something). Looking for incentives for active priests to train some buffs but still be viable, either by less train investment or their buffs doing something to impact combat.

So throwing is back on the old vendor, but the range is still 24.3?
If the buffs we're too short then we'd all just use concs, don't need a situation where you're fighting a zerg and alac/MR runs out so the priest has to do it so make sure PS stays up.

If they completely block multiboxing then buffs could just be free. If not, we all know people (including myself) will leave a too or two logged in for buffs.

Doesn't even have to be all healers, bard and priest could easily get them for free. Then just slap a cooldown on group ones since otherwise buff strips would fall off.

Single target tho if granted at GM wouldn't hurt anything as even at their current cast times it will take time as stated above.

Hell I always instantly hit my contact buff when I fought GK dwarves.

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