Your most preferred proc toon

Deathmarch
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:27 pm

Fugger wrote:been there did that, there's no applicable gains from memorizing the scaling of the game's procs itemized vs castable
No, but having knowledge that there is a difference is at least useful in academic discussions, if only for the purpose of accuracy.
ScrappyDoo
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:42 am

My most preffered proc toon is probably a clothstalker or UA assassin. I've tried a BW elf mage doomy with throwing daggers once. Could reach about 2k in procs from time to time but mostly did around 1600-1800dmg. Was squishy as hell and had hellacious atr but was more of a shock value toon then and actual playable toon.
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Cryfowl
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:51 pm

Fugger wrote:been there did that, there's no applicable gains from memorizing the scaling of the game's procs itemized vs castable
If you are content then so be it. I think there is direct value in knowing that UH's T2 holy proc is actually worse than a T2 holy suffix or that lightning and cold procs are just as powerful as holy and unholy but all four beat out fire.

but hey that's just me.
------------------------------------------------------

@ Amaz:

TYVM i certainly appreciate you posting the ones I was missing. I have a very basic understanding of how computer programming works but while you are in this thread could you confirm the exact process the computer uses to "ramp" the dmg numbers? so if a T3 unholy proc went off at it's max base what would the formula be to figure out it's new base before the comp runs it through the spell damage formula to figure out final dmg numbers?
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:00 pm

My favorite in terms of just being fun, is an Irekei hybrid damage SD Ranger. In terms of both fun and power, then human or aelf clothstalker.
Amaz
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:57 pm

Cryfowl wrote: TYVM i certainly appreciate you posting the ones I was missing. I have a very basic understanding of how computer programming works but while you are in this thread could you confirm the exact process the computer uses to "ramp" the dmg numbers? so if a T3 unholy proc went off at it's max base what would the formula be to figure out it's new base before the comp runs it through the spell damage formula to figure out final dmg numbers?
Its quite complicated because essentially weapon procs work like normal spells, generally speaking T1 procs cast as a Rank 1 power, T2 procs cast as a Rank 11 power, T3 procs cast as a Rank 35, T4 as Rank 40. There are slight variations, but largely this is the case. A normal damage calculation is then done as if the player had cast the spell with no focus and the indicated rank of the power. See http://morloch.shadowbaneemulator.com/i ... p/Formulas for spell damage formula.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:12 pm

What is most annoying about procs, is that being flagged as spells, they interrupt chants. Makes keeping wolfs vigor up a pain in the [fluffy bunnies], having to recast every 30 seconds.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:13 am

I've always loved proc tunes... I've made just about every kind possible... however i am the unluckiest Skah! proccer you will ever meet! I once fought a barb for about 10 mins solid without proccing once!
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:33 pm

Amaz wrote:
Cryfowl wrote: TYVM i certainly appreciate you posting the ones I was missing. I have a very basic understanding of how computer programming works but while you are in this thread could you confirm the exact process the computer uses to "ramp" the dmg numbers? so if a T3 unholy proc went off at it's max base what would the formula be to figure out it's new base before the comp runs it through the spell damage formula to figure out final dmg numbers?
Its quite complicated because essentially weapon procs work like normal spells, generally speaking T1 procs cast as a Rank 1 power, T2 procs cast as a Rank 11 power, T3 procs cast as a Rank 35, T4 as Rank 40. There are slight variations, but largely this is the case. A normal damage calculation is then done as if the player had cast the spell with no focus and the indicated rank of the power. See http://morloch.shadowbaneemulator.com/i ... p/Formulas for spell damage formula.
So it isn't T1= 10 trains T2= 20 trains T3=30 trains T4=40 ? ? ? I find that surprising!
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coolstream
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:29 pm

Procs were always so complicated... each proc type did different damage ranges it seemed... I had no idea focus skill came into the calculation at all!

aside from profession procs like the NS and assassin proc, what focus skills affected what procs?

I'd really like some hard proc numbers for each of the various procs, their tiers, and any other info involved!
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:21 pm

coolstream wrote:I had no idea focus skill came into the calculation at all!
It doesn't, I said cast as if the player had no focus. Even on class procs like Assa and NS focus skill doesn't change damage.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:25 pm

Cryfowl wrote:So it isn't T1= 10 trains T2= 20 trains T3=30 trains T4=40 ? ? ? I find that surprising!
I did too, but that's what the numbers say. Although some of the procs vary from those numbers. But the proc rank on its own is a bit meaningless as its only a multiplier for damage, if you had a T3 proc doing Rank 40, but lower max damage you would end up in the same place, tier is really only useful as a comparator to other procs of the same damage type. It all smells like UBI/WP elastoplast fixes to me.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:20 am

coolstream wrote:Procs were always so complicated... each proc type did different damage ranges it seemed... I had no idea focus skill came into the calculation at all!

aside from profession procs like the NS and assassin proc, what focus skills affected what procs?

I'd really like some hard proc numbers for each of the various procs, their tiers, and any other info involved!
The base Min / maxes are all posted here in this thread. Should be all you need.
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Telemakus
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:00 pm

meant to post this somewhere else.
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Equastro
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:38 pm

Amaz wrote:
Cryfowl wrote: TYVM i certainly appreciate you posting the ones I was missing. I have a very basic understanding of how computer programming works but while you are in this thread could you confirm the exact process the computer uses to "ramp" the dmg numbers? so if a T3 unholy proc went off at it's max base what would the formula be to figure out it's new base before the comp runs it through the spell damage formula to figure out final dmg numbers?
Its quite complicated because essentially weapon procs work like normal spells, generally speaking T1 procs cast as a Rank 1 power, T2 procs cast as a Rank 11 power, T3 procs cast as a Rank 35, T4 as Rank 40. There are slight variations, but largely this is the case. A normal damage calculation is then done as if the player had cast the spell with no focus and the indicated rank of the power. See http://morloch.shadowbaneemulator.com/i ... p/Formulas for spell damage formula.
"ID" "IDString" "modType" "minMod" "maxMod" "percentMod" "ramp" "useRampAdd" "type" "string1" "string2"
"288" "PROC-LIGHTNING" "Health" "-13" "-53" "0" "0.057" "0" "Lightning" "" ""
"1280" "PROC-MENTAL" "Health" "-20" "-46" "0" "0.057" "0" "Mental" "" ""
"1374" "PROC-HOLYBLADE" "Health" "-17" "-50" "0" "0.057" "0" "Holy" "" ""
"1543" "PROC-POISON" "Health" "-4" "-7" "0" "0.057" "0" "Poison" "" ""
"2371" "PROC-HOLY" "Health" "-13" "-53" "0" "0.057" "0" "Holy" "" ""
"2791" "PROC-FIRE" "Health" "-15" "-51" "0" "0.057" "0" "Fire" "" ""
"2900" "PROC-BLEEDING" "Health" "-3" "-8" "0" "0.057" "0" "Bleed" "" ""
"2915" "PROC-UNHOLY" "Health" "-13" "-53" "0" "0.057" "0" "Unholy" "" ""
"2973" "PROC-COLD" "Health" "-13" "-53" "0" "0.057" "0" "Cold" "" ""
"3390" "PROC-POISONBLADE" "Health" "-21" "-45" "0" "0.057" "0" "Poison" "" ""
"3949" "PROC-DISEASE" "Health" "-4" "-7" "0" "0.057" "0" "Disease" "" ""
"4151" "PROC-MAGIC" "Health" "-18" "-48" "0" "0.057" "0" "Magic" "" ""
"5095" "PROC-ACID" "Health" "-3" "-8" "0" "0.057" "0" "Acid" "" ""

Putting one and one together, if I understand correctly, the following examples would be calculated as follows:

An assassin with GM trainable poison proc & an 'of Oblivion' dagger procs:
Poison:
Minmod = -21 + (40*-0.057)
Maxmod = -45 + (40*-0.057)

Because the 'of oblivion' counts as a level 35 'castable' proc, it is computed as:
Minmod: = -13 + (35*-0.057)
Maxmod: = -53 + (35*-0.057)

These minmod & maxmod values (using absolute values I assume, so positive only) are then the direct input for respectively the spell min & max damage calculations.
Is this what you were trying to explain amaz?

Further questions:
Since it is obvious 'poisonblade' indicates the assassin proc, I am assuming 'holyblade' indicates 'consecrate weapon', as in NS, Sader & UH proc? 'Holy' being the weapon suffix proc?
Which proc is 'disease', which is 'acid'?
I'm assuming one of them should be the rat catcher proc? What is the other? Mob-based only?
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:26 pm

Equastro wrote: Further questions:
Since it is obvious 'poisonblade' indicates the assassin proc, I am assuming 'holyblade' indicates 'consecrate weapon', as in NS, Sader & UH proc? 'Holy' being the weapon suffix proc?
Which proc is 'disease', which is 'acid'?
I'm assuming one of them should be the rat catcher proc? What is the other? Mob-based only?
I think you are absolutely correct about poisonblade and holyblade considering there are two others in the list for poison and holy that are separate. I assumed acid and disease were leftovers from originally development and not used. Disease could be confused with stam procs I suppose but Amaz listed those and they are separate from this list and are listed as Stam damage not disease.
I've never understood the Ratcatcher proc although I've always thought it was a damage only "hone" (similar to how "of piercing" or forgemaster's hone works) that only works on mobs and not truly a proc.

in any ways I'm not a dev and look forward to Amaz's response.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:52 pm

Disease is an existing damage type, though it's only used by healer contagion.

Judging by the damage ranges, I'm assuming acid and disease were intended to be damage over time procs, like the rollable poison proc.
Equastro
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:20 am

Some mobs actually cast (or more likely, proc) a disease DoT. A lot of them in Grimscairne do so.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:16 am

Clarification on applying min/maxMod would be nice for the Proc page

ty for all the info so far

edit: using what Equastro posted
Equastro wrote:Putting one and one together, if I understand correctly, the following examples would be calculated as follows:

An assassin with GM trainable poison proc & an 'of Oblivion' dagger procs:
Poison:
Minmod = -21 + (40*-0.057)
Maxmod = -45 + (40*-0.057)

....

These minmod & maxmod values (using absolute values I assume, so positive only) are then the direct input for respectively the spell min & max damage calculations.
Is this what you were trying to explain amaz?
Poison Blade
min = -21+(40*-0.057) = -23.28
max = -45+(40*-0.057) = -47.28

edit: no way that the above values are right, though. MorlochWiki and the Assassin powers page on the SBE webpage show the min/max at rank 40 as 69-148

edit2: I think this works

Code: Select all

minimum damage (rank 40) = minMod+(powerRank*(minMod*ramp))
maximum damage (rank 40) = minMod+(powerRank*(minMod*ramp))

ex. Poison Blade
minimum damage (rank 40) = 21+(40*(21*0.057)) = 68.88
maximum damage (rank 40) = 45+(40*(45*0.057)) = 147.6

ex. Consecrate Weapon
minimum damage (rank 40) = 17+(40*(17*0.057)) = 55.76
maximum damage (rank 40) = 50+(40*(50*0.057)) = 164
Plugging those into the spell damage formulas on the wiki, assuming 292 Intelligence and 102 Spirit after buffs/gear,

Code: Select all

min = (0.0045*292+ 0.055*(292-0.5)^0.5+0.006*102+0.07*(102-0.5)^0.5+0.02*0)*69 = 246
max = (0.0117*292+0.13*(292-0.5)^0.5+0.0024*102+0.021*(102-0.5)^0.5+0.015*0)*`48 = 902
adjusted for Mage Assassin offensive stance (+46%)

Code: Select all

min = 246*1.46 = 360
max = 902*1.46 = 1317
seems about right to me

so overall,

Code: Select all

Type		  Min		  Max
LIGHTNING	     39		159
MENTAL		     60		138
HOLYBLADE        56		164
POISON		     12		21
HOLY		       39		159
FIRE		       45		153
BLEEDING	       9		24
UNHOLY		     39		159
COLD		       39		159
POISONBLADE	   69		148
MAGIC		      54		144
STAMINA	       15		36
That's calculating for rank 35 on rollable suffixes, rank 40 for Assassin/Crusader/Nightstalker powers

Not sure how to calculate Vampyre, though. Using the above formula it's way too high. Paging Dr. Amaz :D
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:01 pm

BazookaTooth wrote:
Purg wrote:I've never played a proc build before. There's something about relying on chance to do my damage that's always bugged me.
Generally if it doesn't hit quickly and alot then it can be bettered by another build.
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Re: Your most preferred proc toon

Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:36 pm

Fleetness wrote:aelf clothstalker.
wut.
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